Comments on: A Real Rare Victorian Mystery – Part III http://rarevictorian.com/2008/06/a-real-rare-victorian-mystery-part-iii.html The definitive Victorian antique furniture destination Thu, 19 Apr 2012 22:07:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: RareVictorian http://rarevictorian.com/2008/06/a-real-rare-victorian-mystery-part-iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-455 RareVictorian Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:05:20 +0000 http://rarevictorian.com/?p=461#comment-455 928, faded, but unmistakable. See the post later today with Kathie's stencil and one from another Neal chair that is very clear. 928, faded, but unmistakable. See the post later today with Kathie’s stencil and one from another Neal chair that is very clear.

]]> By: woodwright http://rarevictorian.com/2008/06/a-real-rare-victorian-mystery-part-iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-454 woodwright Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:23:47 +0000 http://rarevictorian.com/?p=461#comment-454 Ok RareV. That blows a hole in that potential theory. Was the address for B&K on the 10/07 or 11/07 (conflicting dates) chair 20 Broadway (like Hantmans), or 928 Broadway (like all the others) - or otherwise? I stll wonder why all of the other chairs unlike Kathies don't have a stencil. If they did, they surely would have been pictured, or at least mentioned with their listings. Bembe & Kimbel looks like they stenciled most (maybe all) of their Congresional chairs. Also wonder where are the chairs made by the Hammitt Desk Co. & why the different designs if both styles were made by the same firm (Bembe & Kimbel)? woodwright Ok RareV. That blows a hole in that potential theory. Was the address for B&K on the 10/07 or 11/07 (conflicting dates) chair 20 Broadway (like Hantmans), or 928 Broadway (like all the others) – or otherwise? I stll wonder why all of the other chairs unlike Kathies don’t have a stencil. If they did, they surely would have been pictured, or at least mentioned with their listings. Bembe & Kimbel looks like they stenciled most (maybe all) of their Congresional chairs. Also wonder where are the chairs made by the Hammitt Desk Co. & why the different designs if both styles were made by the same firm (Bembe & Kimbel)? woodwright

]]> By: RareVictorian http://rarevictorian.com/2008/06/a-real-rare-victorian-mystery-part-iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-453 RareVictorian Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:19:42 +0000 http://rarevictorian.com/?p=461#comment-453 Woodwright, I have the condition report photos from the November 2007 Neal sale of a chair and that chair is w/o crestrail bumps and has a stencil for Bembe & Kimbel. Woodwright, I have the condition report photos from the November 2007 Neal sale of a chair and that chair is w/o crestrail bumps and has a stencil for Bembe & Kimbel.

]]> By: woodwright http://rarevictorian.com/2008/06/a-real-rare-victorian-mystery-part-iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-451 woodwright Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:52:39 +0000 http://rarevictorian.com/?p=461#comment-451 The easiest way for me to tell the 2 styles apart at a quick glance is: Kathies chair style has "bumps" along the top rail - at the outside above the ends that flow into the chair arms. The other style does not have these 2 "bumps". There are several other differences, but the bumps (or lack thereof) are usually readily visible, but depending on the angle of the photo - other details are not always discernable. Here is yet another Walter's Congressional chair & a matching desk @ Witherell's in Ca. (Antiques Roadshow appraiser & author of Berkey & Gay book - also has some other nice furniture) with 17 superb photos from all angles to show all details - click pics. to enlarge, then click top RH corner to adavance to next enlarged picture , top LH corner to go back to previous. http://witherells.com/Californiana.aspx?pid=98d1b5d2-9d9e-4709-a8de-029a2b30c0cb Looks like restored condition ($32,500 for both) - if money was no object - how great would it be to own this chair & desk & the history that goes with it. This one is unlike Kathie's (w/o bumps), as are the chairs from Neal Auction 10/06, 10/07, 2/08, 7/08 (upcoming), the oshkosh public museum & Southhampton Antiques chair. That's (7) all different of that style chair. All of these are either attributed to or lisings just say "Bembe & Kimbel" - I didn't see any that showed any stencils or labels on any of this style chair. Other chairs that are the same as Kathie's (w/ bumps), is Neal Auction 6/05 -stencil pictured, one sold by Hantman's (mentioned earlier, mentions stencil present), there is one pictured in the book "Art & Enterprise" (High Museum of Art - Copyright 1999) on p. 366 & 367 - which also pictures stencil. That totals (4) of Kathies style w/ "bumps" including Kathie's chair (has partial stencil). Everyone of this style either shows the stencil from Bembe & Kimbel 928 Broadway or at least mentions the stencil is present. According to Art & Enterprise Bembe & Kimbel were listed in NYC directory @ 928 Broadway in 1858 and until the 1864 directory which then listed Kimbel & Cabus @ 924 Broadway. Carl Bembe in 1864 directory still listed at 928 Broadway. A&E also states other Congresional chairs are owned by Massachusetts Historical Society, Maryland Historical Society, Henry Ford Museum. Hantman's says other chairs like it are in the Smithsonian, (2) chairs in the Lincoln Memorial University @ Horgate Tenn., The Chicago Historical Soc., Alexander Gardiner's Studio owned by Ft. Wayne Indiana Hist. Soc. I don't know which style any of these others mentioned are. I know Kathies style chairs (w/ bumps) were made by Bembe & Kimbel - all I saw have stencils to prove this. I suspect Bembe & Kimbel stenciled all of their chairs. The other style (w/o bumps)however I didn't see any stencils pictured or mentioned and wonder if that style/ variation was made by the Hammitt Desk Co. of Philla.? More of that style were found, and from the info - it seems that Bembe & Kimbel were initially given the order for 1/2 of the chairs, but it didn't look like they could fill the order in time, and it looked like their share would be cut. The balance added to the order from the Hammitt Desk Co. So if they made more ( the majority of the chairs), then more of their style would probably surface. Did anyone see any chairs w/o the bumps (not like Kathie's chair) that showed or spoke of a Bembe & Kimbel stencil present? I didn't. Food for thought. woodwright The easiest way for me to tell the 2 styles apart at a quick glance is: Kathies chair style has “bumps” along the top rail – at the outside above the ends that flow into the chair arms. The other style does not have these 2 “bumps”. There are several other differences, but the bumps (or lack thereof) are usually readily visible, but depending on the angle of the photo – other details are not always discernable.
Here is yet another Walter’s Congressional chair & a matching desk @ Witherell’s in Ca. (Antiques Roadshow appraiser & author of Berkey & Gay book – also has some other nice furniture) with 17 superb photos from all angles to show all details – click pics. to enlarge, then click top RH corner to adavance to next enlarged picture , top LH corner to go back to previous. http://witherells.com/Californiana.aspx?pid=98d1b5d2-9d9e-4709-a8de-029a2b30c0cb Looks like restored condition ($32,500 for both) – if money was no object – how great would it be to own this chair & desk & the history that goes with it. This one is unlike Kathie’s (w/o bumps), as are the chairs from Neal Auction 10/06, 10/07, 2/08, 7/08 (upcoming), the oshkosh public museum & Southhampton Antiques chair. That’s (7) all different of that style chair. All of these are either attributed to or lisings just say “Bembe & Kimbel” – I didn’t see any that showed any stencils or labels on any of this style chair.
Other chairs that are the same as Kathie’s (w/ bumps), is Neal Auction 6/05 -stencil pictured, one sold by Hantman’s (mentioned earlier, mentions stencil present), there is one pictured in the book “Art & Enterprise” (High Museum of Art – Copyright 1999) on p. 366 & 367 – which also pictures stencil. That totals (4) of Kathies style w/ “bumps” including Kathie’s chair (has partial stencil). Everyone of this style either shows the stencil from Bembe & Kimbel 928 Broadway or at least mentions the stencil is present. According to Art & Enterprise Bembe & Kimbel were listed in NYC directory @ 928 Broadway in 1858 and until the 1864 directory which then listed Kimbel & Cabus @ 924 Broadway. Carl Bembe in 1864 directory still listed at 928 Broadway.
A&E also states other Congresional chairs are owned by Massachusetts Historical Society, Maryland Historical Society, Henry Ford Museum. Hantman’s says other chairs like it are in the Smithsonian, (2) chairs in the Lincoln Memorial University @ Horgate Tenn., The Chicago Historical Soc., Alexander Gardiner’s Studio owned by Ft. Wayne Indiana Hist. Soc. I don’t know which style any of these others mentioned are.
I know Kathies style chairs (w/ bumps) were made by Bembe & Kimbel – all I saw have stencils to prove this. I suspect Bembe & Kimbel stenciled all of their chairs. The other style (w/o bumps)however I didn’t see any stencils pictured or mentioned and wonder if that style/ variation was made by the Hammitt Desk Co. of Philla.? More of that style were found, and from the info – it seems that Bembe & Kimbel were initially given the order for 1/2 of the chairs, but it didn’t look like they could fill the order in time, and it looked like their share would be cut. The balance added to the order from the Hammitt Desk Co. So if they made more ( the majority of the chairs), then more of their style would probably surface. Did anyone see any chairs w/o the bumps (not like Kathie’s chair) that showed or spoke of a Bembe & Kimbel stencil present? I didn’t. Food for thought. woodwright

]]> By: Paul Tucker http://rarevictorian.com/2008/06/a-real-rare-victorian-mystery-part-iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-442 Paul Tucker Sun, 22 Jun 2008 23:54:25 +0000 http://rarevictorian.com/?p=461#comment-442 History Detectives=favorite tv show Rare Victorian=favorite web blog What fun! Thanks. History Detectives=favorite tv show
Rare Victorian=favorite web blog

What fun! Thanks.

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